Anonymous Exuberance (Revisited): Interview With Ken Shipley, Numero Group Founder

Recent re-issues are constantly touted as “lost masterpieces” or “holy grails” of some sort. And surely, some are stunning discoveries. The recent flood of funk and soul re-issues are deserving of their allure, but like everything, some are just better than others. As Nate Nothing outlined, the Numero Group has had a remarkable recent show of success. While patterns emerge as to which labels uncover gems--and which make embellished assertions--Numero has done an outstanding job in a consistent, careful manner.
The label consists of founder Ken Shipley (above, right) and a dedicated team that scours the country for forgotten music. The forethought displayed in Numero’s releases are gleaming; The Eccentric Soul series [17 and counting] come with liner notes that contextualize the music and its makers, adding depth to the crackly recordings. Most of the records uncovered have rarely been heard, if ever. The silliness and sorrows are depicted with dignity and, almost always, add staggering perspective to the music.

I've been impressed by each Numero release, and the recognition they quietly gain. We’re lucky to have Mr. Shipley show us his "terribly unglamorous" operation and explain exactly how, and why, he does what he does. Thanks for humoring us Ken. Here's to your outstanding label.

Please introduce yourself for fans wondering who you are?
Ken Shipley, the Numero Group’s minister of information.

How many members are on your staff?
Six.

Take us through a typical day at Numero headquarters.
Doors open at 9, though typically bodies don’t cross the threshold until 10. There is no set schedule, other than that the mail needs to go out at noon and UPS comes at 5:30. Everything else in between can be shifted to earlier or later depending on its priority. 90% of what we do is terribly unglamorous. Books need to be kept, boxes get packed, purchase orders go out, just like any other workplace. Once a month we crunch hard and finish a project, and that’s generally the most interesting work. Rob and I lock our selves in our offices and write for hours, take it home, swish it around, argue, rewrite, take antacid.

How much of the year do you spend traveling, looking for records?
These days not nearly as much, as most of what we do is on the phone and through the mail. We generally do a few trips a year and get a handful of things lined up on the way. In the case of Grand Bahama Goombay, we actually got Recording Tap and Outskirts Of Deep City rolling at the same time.

Is your personal record collection insane or what?
Rob’s is probably the deepest, though we both have rooms dedicated to records at our houses.

How did the first release in the Eccentric Soul series come about?
I had just lost my job at Ryko Disc and wanted to start a new label. Rob and I had a mutual friend and ended up meeting in a bar. He had an idea for a compilation called Eccentric Soul; I took that idea, tinkered and came back with something bigger. The catalyst for taking it beyond the random compilation of 45s that Rob wanted to do was Bill Moss, who informed me that he had made a few dozen recordings, not just the two Rob was talking about. I thought labels would be much more interesting and could tell a nice tightly wrapped story.
What were the main motivating factors that made you want to start the label?
At Ryko I had a few projects I wanted to do that never happened and ended up taking one of them with me. Meeting our other partner Tom Lunt in a grocery store while we were both unemployed didn’t hurt either. At the same time I was spending a lot of time at Sheer Magic’s soul night in Chicago, just listening and talking to other soul aficionados. The music of those nights needed to be heard, and it seemed like there wasn’t enough people trying to make that a reality.

What was the first record you found for the label that blew you away?
Antena, though I found it for another label.

Can you tell us which are your favorite tracks off of some of these Eccentric Soul releases?

-Mighty Mike: "Loaded To The Gills", "I’ve Got To Have You", "Function Underground"

-Prix Label: "You Got Me (Demo)", "Mystic", "Wait A Minute"

-Home Schooled: "I’m Not Ready For Love", "Time", "Now That School Is Through"

-Deep City: "Am I A Good Man", "Someone To Fulfill My Needs", "I am Controlled By Your Love"

Where do you typically hear about these records and where do you normally find them?
The larger world of collecting is the best resource. Talking to people, listening to their mixes, bumming MP3s, and listening is the key. Finding the originals is rarely my goal as most of this stuff is impossibly rare. I collect masters these days.
How many records do you sift through before deciding on the ones that make it onto the comp?
With some compilations it seems like you’ve barely got enough! We like to find between 16-20 songs for a record, but it’s key to use only the best stuff. In the case of Twinight and Tragar we had to make a bunch of painful cuts because the material was so good.

Which was the most difficult project in the series to put together?
They’re all tough in their own way. You forget how difficult it was after you finish. But if I had to pick, I’d say Twinight because it took us two years to finish and we kept getting better stuff. The record just never wanted to end.

Which was the easiest and why?
Lenaburg definitely. John Dixon handed us the entire thing and all we did was color in the story.

Who mainly gets to keep these discovered records?
We have library in our office for all the treasure. Like Alexandria meets Ft. Knox.

What are some future Numero releases you have in the works?
NUM020 Eccentric Soul: The Tragar & Note Labels
NUM021 Soul Messages From Dimona
NUM022 A Local Custom: Downriver Revival

Do you get a chance to listen to contemporary music?
There are people I like, but I don’t have as much time to listen to outside music as I’d like. It’s hard enough just listening to the stuff we’ve got on the whiteboard. That said, I enjoy the moody stylings of Cat Power and Hope Sandoval, cut and paste shit like the Avalanches or Dilla’s Donuts, and am eagerly anticipating GnR’s next album.

What advice, if any, would you give to others who want to start a label like Numero?
Now is clearly not the time. Save your money and go to business school.

What does the label envision for itself in the future?
We’re going to be the next Folkways. Wait and see.

**For more information on the Numero Group and their releases, please visit http://www.numerogroup.com/

Duel Of The Iron Mic?

Homoerotic, kinda-sad, weird, mad uncomfortable, raw hip-hop yo.

Building With Davey D

Longtime, respected hip-hop critic, activist, and scholar Davey D showed us love by featuring WTTM's Biz Markie article on his site for fans to check out. He's been documenting hip-hop since we were mere youngsters, while Davey D's Hip-Hop Corner is one of the largest and oldest hip-hop sites on the net. We're glad to be on his radar. Thanks for the support, Dave.

Riddim & Blues: A Look At David Isaacs

David Isaacs (no relation to Gregory Isaacs) is said to have been responsible for launching the Trojan label into worldwide acclaim with his debut LP, A Place In The Sun. Mr. Isaacs recorded between the late ‘60s and early ‘80s, releasing five albums and numerous singles, many of which were produced by the great Lee Perry. During this time, he recorded one of the saddest songs ever, “Just Enough To Keep Me Hanging On”. The aesthetic of the recording; the slight echo of the vocals, and the lonely, bare-bones feel are really effective. Hear it here:



Mr. Isaacs also did a great cover of Stevie Wonder’s “A Place In The Sun”, the title track to his revered first album (also produced by Lee Perry). Wonderful stuff, enjoy.

Rock It Real Good: Etta James Gets Down

Most of Etta James’ songs are sweet, soulful tunes that highlight her warm voice (see: “At Last”). But on her Rocks The House record, Ms. James gets down several times over grimy, uptempo soundscapes. I recently came across “Seven Day Fool”, a delightful track** from said album that’s totally drum-driven, and needless to say, very, very charming. I’m sure I’m a latecomer to the recording, but it’s here for your enjoyment nevertheless.



**The version above is the studio recorded version of "Seven Day Fool" and isn't the version off Rocks The House (a live album) where it originally appeared.

The Wisdom of Age

Our good friend, record broker, and resident Darrell-Hammond-impersonating-Sean-Connery-impersonator Age has posted a quick record check on Soulstrut. Age is a serious collector and if he's willing to give you a peek into his crates, it's a good idea to peep game. Please note that he has generously included an audio clip of the holy grail of San Jose gospel funk, Aposento Alto. Act quickly, they take the sound clips down as soon as they archive the features.

Goin' off with the Biz

Hip-Hop does not create renaissance men (or women) anymore. And we can't really count rappers who have dropped TJ Maxx-bound clothing lines, flavored beverages (soft and hard), TV shows, shoe horns, whatever side-hustles many rappers have undertaken to over-saturate the market on all fronts. Biz Markie did not rely on any of that.

In a time when Hip-Hop was young and cutting-edge, and before it lost grip of its roots, Biz Markie was an all-out entertainer: a successful hit maker both over and underground, a active DJ, a well-schooled record collector, and a mic-soaking beatboxer. He supposedly has an absurd toy collection, as he claims in the Hip-Hop factoid book Ego Trip's Big Book of Rap Lists. He was also the comic relief character of one of the greatest posses the rap game has ever known: the Juice Crew.

Who could forget his earth-shattering rendition of "The Star Spangled Banner" (in which he donned a Hendrix-style dashiki, blowout wig and lefty white Stratocaster) to open the festivities at the Tibetan Freedom Concert? The best part about that particular performance was his inability to play a single note on the guitar. Rather, he substituted shredding for belting "raow raows" belligerently . In that performance, the Biz kept true to the principles of his ground-breaking single "Make The Music With Your Mouth."

His rendition of Elton John's classic "Benny and the Jets" (recorded with his chums the Beastie Boys) is also a fine cut of pure, raw, off-the-cuff entertainment. He manages to pull off a gut-busting performance, without knowing a majority of the song's lyrics.

Nowadays, he moonlights as a venue-packing DJ, preserves the art of beatboxing as a segment host on Nick Jr.'s children's show Yo Gabba Gabba, where he teaches viewers how to make music with THEIR mouths.

His legend will allegedly be immortalized in an upcoming film entitled The Vapors, a biopic about the Juice Crew. The Biz is slated to be portrayed by chart-topping Mississippian rapper David Banner (I'm sure you're just as curious as I am as to how this is going to work).

As the Hip-Hop game awaits its next true all-around entertainer, the Biz stands alone in his own class. With Biz Markie, it is ALWAYS that kind of party. Keep a close watch on your mashed potatoes...



“Lemme Tell You A Story Of My Situation…”


What was the first hip-hop related thing you ever did?

Beatboxing. I mean, I was a kid and that was just the first thing I took up when it came to hip-hop. I didn’t think about, I just sorta did it, ya know?

How was New York when you were just a young beatboxer?

It was so amazing. It wasn’t even a baby, more like a wild seven-year-old. It was a beautiful thing then.

How’d your life change when “Just A Friend” blew up?

Not much changed. I just became really, really popular overnight and got more money. But otherwise I was the same and not much changed. I’m always the same dude no matter what.

What do you think is your best album?

I can’t even tell you ‘cause they’re all different and significant in different ways.

How’d you end up hooking up with Prism records?

Tyrone Williams brought me over there.

Where were you when you found out about the whole court case over your sample usage?

I was driving in my car and they told me about it. Good thing is, I never even had to got o court! It was the record company’s thing.

Did you think it affected “ I Need A Haircut”, or your career for that matter?

I actually didn’t think it affected things much. I felt real talented then, and now too, so I would’ve just jumped into something else. I’m a survivor. Whatever I do, I’ll always provide and survive.

But the case affected hip-hop as a whole. Did you think it’d be that monumental?

I didn’t know then that it’d be that important. I just thought it was another court case. Sorta like if you got pulled over and got a traffic ticket or something [laughs]. I don’t even really think about it. I know it was important, but I have to only think about the future. I did that during the case and I still do that now.

When you look back, do you think you were a highly influential character?

Yeah. I think the way I did things were influential ‘cause it’s still reflected in people today. You know, the way people rap and have their pants sagging whatever. Many little things man. Maybe I didn’t invent these things, but I popularized it in many ways. I popularized a lot of things.

“Cause I Have Friends, And That’s A Fact”



What struck you when you met Marley Marl?

He knew how to make great records, plus he was on the radio. That right there caught my attention immediately.

Let’s talk about how you met members of the Juice Crew. How’d you meet Fly Ty Williams?

He aight. He was a manager and was real hard working in the beginning. But when the money came into play, he wasn’t as hardworking.

What about Shan?

I met MC Shan in a hallway randomly. My man Phil Rodriguez from Long Island brought me out to his cousin’s house and Shan lived right across the street. He said, “You I know this kid named Shan?’ I’ll introduce you to him.” And that’s how we met.

Are those stories true about you meeting Big Daddy Kane at a battle?

Yeah, I met Kane in Brooklyn and we rapped against each other. So after we met and battled, we got down because I used to get into all kinds of parties and stuff. So he’d eventually roll with me.

How’d you connect with Kool G Rap and DJ Polo?

I met G Rap through Polo. I met Polo from Marley’s house. That’s where everybody used to record and just kick it. So I ran into Polo at Marley’s and Polo introduced me to this cat named Kool G Rap.

What about Craig G?

When I met Craig, he was actually doing a record in Marley’s house. He was from Queensbridge, so he was another local kid from the way.

What about the younger members, like Tragedy?

I knew Tragedy since he was a little kid in Queensbridge.

Where did you meet Roxanne Shante?

I met Shante in a park.

Masta Ace?

I met Ace at Marley’s too.

How about TJ Swan?

He was my boy from Long Island and we got together to do stuff. I got him to sing with me.

And what about Cool V?

V’s my cousin. We knew each other since we were teenagers and he became a really dope DJ right before my eyes, so I had to get him onboard to whatever I was doing.

So Marley’s house linked everyone together?

Yeah, sort of. I met everyone at Marley’s house at different times. Plus we all to record there. Everything went through Marley. His house was the nucleus.

How about “The Bridge” rivalry? What’s your outlook on that now?

It isn’t as big of a deal as everyone made it out to be. I mean, we were friends with BDP and Scott La Rock. It wasn’t a big fight or anything. I mean, I had to give Chris props. We were friends, we were cool. I still look at Chris as one of the greatest. He was innovative but had a lot of heart too.

What was your main contribution to establishing Cold Chillin’?

Besides me being me, I was like a talent finder. I like to believe in people, so I put Kane on. I was always a team player and that’s probably my main contribution to Cold Chillin’.

What are your final thoughts on the Juice Crew?

There will never be another Juice Crew. Ever. But I’d say that the closest thing to Juice Crew would have to be Wu-Tang. I mean, like us, they had different rhyme styles, personalities and they all rhymed about different things.

“Oh Snap, Guess What I Saw…”


After doing TV shows and making guest appearances on other people’s records, would you consider making another rap album?

I have been thinking about it. I mean, I always have ideas, ya know? But I think that the way rap is going right now, my style might be a little too old.

What do you mean by “the way rap is going right now”. What’s your take on it?

Things are more catered to corporate now. You know, they’re just in it to make money. I mean, of course we all are, but it’s losing its art. It’s a sad thing man. At least to me.

Are there any artists you currently like?

I like them all as long as they’re keeping hip-hop alive and are being true. It’s hard to just say one artist. I know a lot of artists I don’t like though!

You’re busy it seems. What do you do on your off days?

I like to relax! I like to watch movies and I like to play records. I also like looking for breakbeats and stuff. I like doin’ whatever!

The last time most people saw you was probably on Celebrity Fit Club. How was the experience of being on a reality show??

It was weird! But only because I didn’t know any of the other celebrities on there. We were a bunch of strangers really. I mean, I had seen them all on TV before. But had to get to know them. We were honestly like a big family once we got to know each other.

Your history in the public, and music in general, is real unique comparatively speaking. What do you think is your place in pop culture?

How do I say this? Um, I don’t look at myself as just part of hip-hop. I look at myself as being sorta important at different times. I was always popular at school and that sorta carried over to my career. When I make a record, I don’t just make it for one purpose—I do it for many different reasons. I don’t think I’ll be remembered for just one thing, ya know?

Can you tell us some of your all time favorite rappers and producers?

My favorite rappers weren’t on records. So I can’t really say. I mean, I love Grand Master Flash, & Furious Five, Cold Crush, Crash Crew and Def Committee─ those are the people y’all would know. Other cats no one’s ever heard of ‘cause I saw them perform and they’d blow me away and I’d never see them again.

What do you want people to say about The Biz a hundred years from now?

He was a crazy dude.

One last question: Are all those rumors true? Do you have the Take Me To Mardi Gras pressing without the bells?

The one with no bells? Yeah I got that. As you sit on the phone, hold on, I’ll get people who’ve heard it and have seen it, hold on…I could put Jazzy Jeff or Kenny Dope on the phone right now and they’ll tell you. Everybody wants to come to my house and look through my record collection and find it. Everyone thinks it’s a myth but it’s not.

[on hold, but still audible] Um…hold on…um…Kenny, wake up Kenny! Oh Kenny! Kenny wake up! Ah, I can’t get anybody on the phone, but I promise, I got it.


Interview by David Ma, Foreword by Cutso

"Bennie and the Jets"